Personal belief systems and politics aside, it’s a story about how much someone will do for love.

And that’s what’s important, I think.

The reason that this is one of my categories is that my dissertation is on Frances Kellor. She was the head of the Americanization movement from 1908 - 1924. She had a female life partner for 50 years. She often dressed like a man. I need to understand how scholars would categorize her.

According to your terminology, though Kellor was phsyically a female, would you call her gender identity of male? If she has a gender identity of male, would she be heterosexual or lesbian? I read all the posts and still don’t entirely get it. Thanks!

BTW it might be interesting for you to know that Kellor ran much of Teddy Roosevelt’s 1912 progressive campaign. The press gave him grief for putting her and Jane Addams in positions of power. He said, in so many words, that they had changed his mind about suffrage and about lesbian women. Honestly, I think they both bonded over being so very macho. Kellor was a hunter and gamesman.

BTW, the Americanization movement always gets panned as coercive and hateful of diversity. I’m arguing, among other things, that it seems strange to assert that a gender bending lesbian was intolerant of diversity. I paint her work as inclusive. I think she would have seen herself as non-mainstream. Do you think this is fair?

Sorry for writing too much. Really, clarification on the terms would be most helpful. Book recommendations would too. Thanks, John

“For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside.”

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t that mean that the person might be born with both, even if both does not mean on the outside?

I’m definitely not an expert on Intersex, and I wasn’t trying to say that everyone was born with both a full penis etc., and full vagina etc., so sorry if I offended you.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/03/pregnant_man_the_tip_of_a_much_deeper_ic.php#more

I agree with she said at the end of the editorial…

“Although I’ve never met Thomas or even spoken to him, he is a brother, and I will defend his right to be himself and to live his life. That’s something any of us should expect to be able to do. And that, truly, is what’s at stake here.”

“This article also made me think about people born Intersex - with both sets of genitalia. Traditionally, gender has been decided for them by doctors and yet now they’re fighting back and saying “Let us decide for ourselves.”

The Intersex Society of North America (ISNA) has a very good website that explains what intersex is (and isn’t).

http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

As an intersexed individual, it’s hurtful when people have misconceptions about who (and what) you are. First and foremost, I’m a human being - trying to make my way through life. There are a myriad of intersex conditions on the intersexed spectrum, but very few are true hermaphrodites (having genitalia and traits of both sexes).

As many of us already know, society isn’t very “kind” of individuals that fit out of the norm. There’s a strong drive for everyone to conform and “fit in the proper box” so to speak. Obviously, I had some “issues.” I had ambiguous genitalia and XY chromosomes, but was assigned to be “a girl.” It’s easier to “make a girl” - you don’t need those extra “boy parts.”

Actually, I would have been very happy being a girl had my clitoris not been “modified” (a nicer word than hacked on). Now, I would say I’m pretty much “asexual.” However, I can’t blame anyone for the past - it was a lack of education and understanding, which are key in treating intersexed individuals today.

My apologies again to RSG for being “off topic” and “ranting.”

Technically, and legally, the man in this story is a woman. Your claiming Italian heritage would be similar if you were born Irish. What do you think the reaction would be if you did that - if you had bright red hair, pitch perfect white skin, a lovely Irish brogue and then told everyone you were Italian?

That’s what this man is doing. He was born a woman, changed his outward appearance to be a man but still kept the one essential aspect of womanhood - the ability to bear a child.

Nevertheless, I completely agree with weese. This is all very simple. You have two committed people who want to have a child. Any gender roles you assign them or I assign them or the world assigns them or they assign themselves, are meaningless. They’re human. They’re having a baby. Yay.